of the people than anywhere else in the world. you know, we won a number of victories. social security, medicare, that made this a much better country. and in that sense, your question's absolutely right. this sense of capitalism having to dominate and being antithetical to democracy comes from the capitalists. it examines from they're saying, we don't work well in democracy. we need to basically have a really weak democracy, or what we call a "dollarocracy," for our system to function. it's clearly true that their world, the world we live in today -- and they've won, let's be clear -- their world is not one that works for the rest of us. and we're really in the classic moment we were in the progressive era, the new deal and the 1960s, where people have to come together and assert the popular power to say, we need policies in the governing system that works for us, not just for them. >> but don't you think that corporate america knows that both parties are up for sale? >> sure. i mean that's not -- i don't think that's a debatable point at this time. what we're really talking about is monopoly.